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Christian View of Slavery Same As Homosexuality

The use of Christian doctrine that falsely condemns homosexuality is the same doctrine that the prior generation used to condone the practice of buying and selling humans as slaves. The Bible was used as justification for slavery, right up to the moment it was made illegal. Slavery was a common practice in the time of Jesus and earlier, yet Jesus himself said nothing about it.

EX 21:20,21 God clearly says we can beat slaves to death. Ex 21:1-6 God says if a master allows his male slave to get married and have children, then the wife and children become the master's property too. Even if the male slave should gain his freedom, the wife and the children must remain with the master. So much for family values! Ephesians 6:5 is the NT support of slavery. Also according to Jewish culture at the time a women was supposed to marry her rapist! Think what following that requirement would do to a women raped today!

Christians claimed Leviticus 25 supports servitude of up to 49 years. Although it was the Christians, not the Jews, who used the Bible to defend slavery.

Montesquieu was considered a heretic for opposing slavery, and his works were condemned. One of the most infamous slave trading ships (that of Hawkins) was called the Jesus. Slavery was viewed as the will of God, and slaves were taught Christianity in order that they might recognize that "truth" and realize and accept that slavery was the natural order of things, sanctioned by the Bible itself. A minister writing in 1860 (in "Slavery, Its Institution and Origin" said: "So we see that God not only instituted slavery but He also made it to forever be a part of the moral probation of the human race, and to be a great lesson to the end of time of his abhorrence of sin." Just over 100 years ago in this country, people who considered themselves model Christians honestly and completely believed that slavery was morally right and opposing slavery was the real sin.

The South - the so called "Bible Belt" appealed to the Bible to justify slavery. Remember that the Southern Baptist church got its start in the 1840's precisely over the issue of slavery. Preachers quoted Eph 6:5 to support slavery then, just as vigorously as Jerry Falwell misquotes Romans 1 to condemn homosexuality. But there's nothing unbiblical about slavery. Like everyone else of his time, Paul regarded slavery as a normal part of society. In Paul's time there was no understanding of loving homosexuality, only the terrible acts of pederasty - hetero males degrading other hetero males sexually. The Bible doesn't change but society understanding does.

Today 2000 years later, we no longer practice pederasty or slavery. I hope soon, anti-gay sermons will be as dated as pro-slavery or anti-race mixing sermons are today.

The Bible says not a word about homosexuality. The word homosexual was not even included in the English translations until about 1940. Only the confusion and ignorance about the horrible practices of pederasty being falsely translated as homosexuality is the cause of the false teachings and making life so difficult for so many loving wonderful Christian gays and lesbians.

Witness of a Pentecostal Christian Lesbian

Public Post from Lorraine Harris follows - What would those that say they know God is against homosexuals say to her? Do they know their communications with God is superior to hers?

"I am a born-again believer, that is I met the Living Jesus & have a personal relationship with him since 1963. I am baptized in the Holy Ghost, and I speak in tongues and operate in a number of other gifts."

"I am a "Lesbian" - I was born that way - for a number of years I believed the teachings of the churches regarding homosexuality, but in the early 1980's I had an experience which made me question the traditional interpretation of the Bible regarding homosexuality and God led me thru the scriptures with a final conclusion that as far as I could see homosexuality is not mentioned in the original texts of the Bible, not in the O.T. nor in the N.T."

"It is certainly not mentioned nor prohibited in the traditional scriptures used to do that. The fact is that for many years I heard the Rama (Spirit) of God regarding many things and yet I continued to accept the false teachings of the church regarding homosexuality. After God showed me that there was no prohibition to homosexuality in the Bible He also showed me how that from time to time He tried to bring my attention to that this truth but that my own internalized homophobia prevented me from hearing from Him regarding these truths."

Witness Of A Lesbian For Whom Heterosexuality Is The Unnatural Act Of Romans 1

Felicia Fontaine now a clergyperson with MCC discussing Romans 1 and "natural":

"I believe my internal, intrinsic nature is to be lesbian, then for me to engage in heterosexual relationships would be wrong. I will go so far as to say that when I did try and deny my nature, my relationship with God suffered tremendously because I used men to help me feel better about myself, and I abused myself because I refused to accept who I believed and still believe God made me to be."

A Minister Warning Homosexuals not to Join His Church Due To Ignorance Ignorance and prejudice about homosexuality is damaging even to the point of suicide. It is for that reason that I do not encourage gays and lesbians to become of our church and will not knowingly baptize one of God's gay children into the church unless they are determined and fully aware (and prepared to deal with) the hatred and prejudice they will face at the hand of fellow members. We as a church are not prepared to receive them and treat them with the equality and dignity which we recognize is every other minorities due. It is truly a sad state of affairs when people must be shielded from the negative consequences resulting from ignorance on the part of those who claim to represent Christ. I'm reminded of Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge," only in cases like this our ignorance results in the destruction of other people. This is the ultimate travesty for we are here to help rather than to hurt people. Those with a sexual orientation that our members are not prepared to deal with should be referred elsewhere for spiritual nurture. As one stated "If you can't help them (without insisting on chastity or changing their natural sexual orientation), at least don't hurt them." Our church is no place for a person with a homosexual orientation, and we are the ones who lose out on the gifts and talents they can offer the body of Christ. The Adventist church does not support gays and lesbians unless they are willing to look with loathing and repugnance upon their sexual orientation, and spend their entire lives hating themselves for being what they are and denying themselves totally when it comes to sexual satisfaction. - Prodigy post Ron Astorly, Adventist minister.

Fortunately many Christian Churches are battling the ignorance and false scriptural teachings and embracing gays and lesbians. But others and within congregation fighting for Gods love of all his children, regardless of what sexual orientation He gave them, stirs up hatred and division among Gods people. That is the abomination, not loving homosexual relationships.

Catholic Reaction To Pope's Gay Attack

"I can only take so much. Homophobia has been part of the Catholic Church for eons. But the Bishop of Rome (henceforth, that is how I address him) went too far in Vatican City when he viciously attacked Gay people who mean no harm to anyone. I'm tired of being treated like trash by the Catholic Church. It will be heart-wrenching to leave, but I now realize that the Catholic Church hates me and will never love me."

"I shall write the Bishop of Rome (he is no longer my Pope) today although I know my letter will never, ever, be read by anyone in Vatican City of any importance, at least I will have had the satisfaction of explaining to hi Holiness that his vicious attack yesterday on gay people while saying Mass was the straw that broke the camel's back. I am no longer a Roman Catholic as of today. And I am shocked seeing the sentence I have just written. I will go where I am loved and accepted and treated with human dignity at all times." - Xavier Salinger Public Prodigy post

Reply by John Bernardi:

"I sympathize with you completely. When I heard the Pope's address, I became very angry and very hurt. I was raised and educated in the Church and I finally realized how hypocritical the Church is after all. How can A church consider itself to be the heritage of Christ and proclaim a policy of social discrimination and hatred? I guess I cannot understand the outright hypocrisy of the whole matter. After all, the Church has idolized what can be considered a completely unnatural form of sexuality for centuries - celibacy. Yet, at the same time, it is now quick to condemn those individuals who seek to form healthy loving and long-term gay relationships (in marriage). But, then, Xavier, what can we really expect from a Church that only recently admitted that after all Galileo was right. In recent years, I have come to understand the difference between a relationship with a loving and always-present God and a relationship with a bureaucratic and dispassionate ecclesiastical organization."

"Congratulations! Perhaps now you can join me and many others who could no longer accept an organization trapped by its own homophobia and discrimination. Perhaps you will come to agree with me that this was an organization that has lost Christ's message of compassion and love. Instead, it has become a Church guilty of blatant idolatry and ignorance."

New Catechism Admits Homosexuality Natuaral But Makes God Very Unloving Catholics at least now recognize that homosexuals have no choice in their sexual orientation (a fact now proven psychologically and now finding genetic support) but consider their condition is "aberrant behavior which is against the natural order." Wow does that lack any logical Congruence!

Lets see, God creates homosexuals giving them strong sexual desires and then forces them to live a life of misery, artificially repressing the natural sexual desire God gave them. That's quite a mean God, certainly not the one I know.

First of all homosexuality is not a behavior, therefore it can not be aberrant. Homosexuality is an inborn/innate orientation not a behavior choice.

Heterosexuals never have to be forced into celibacy. Why would God single out the persons created homosexual to live a life of forced celibacy, and then permit them to be so ostracized and abused by the heterosexual and religious community! This is a loving God?

God created homosexuals to be homosexuals, responsible homosexuals, just as God created heterosexuals to be heterosexuals and to act as heterosexuals, responsible heterosexuals! It is wrong for either to act irresponsibly. Misuse or abuse of our sexuality, regardless of which variety, is wrong because THAT is against Gods will.

Celibacy Is Unnatural

The vast number of "conversions" of natural homosexuals, result not in a heterosexual desire but a life of celibacy out of fear of God due to false teachings that somehow homosexuality is sinful.

If a man is born with only one leg, we provide an artificial leg, we don't pray that God will grow him a new one. But in essence, the homosexual is told to pray a lot and hop on one leg for all of life by being celibate.

This call to celibacy is like saying "you can be a bird, but don't fly." Why would celibacy bring the homosexual into God's ideal of an integrated life of love? Does a lifetime of denial of true natural self and the refusal of the gift of loving human sexuality be more Christ's will? I think not, especially when no where in scripture is homosexuality as we know it today even mentioned it as sinful.

Only the bigots and those that are perhaps so insecure with their own sexuality teach lies of hate rather than what is biblical - Christ's love for all that God created whether they were born left handed, right handed, heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual, it makes no difference. That's simply how God created them - no matter how insecure you are that doesn't change the facts.

Even Common In Earliest Man

In Sierra Da Capivara National Park in Brazil archaeologists have uncovered rocks used as tools by man and remains of fires dating back 60,000 years to the Stone Age. Some 1000 families live close to the park, eking out a living by hunting deer and armadillo. The people, most of them illiterate, gave little importance to hundreds of paintings found on the rocks of the mountains.

Faded images in red, white, black and gray of wildlife, such as fish and deer, appear alongside stick-figures hinting and giving birth and graphic illustrations of Stone Age sex.

Homosexuality, group sex and seemingly impossible positions for intercourse testify to the relaxed lifestyles of the ancient Brazilians. Guidon first heard of the paintings around 20 years ago and has since dated them back as far as 12,000 years.

Over 500 Lutheran Church Leaders Support Gay/Lesbian Issues

During the biennial assembly of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), more than 500 church leaders broke silence and made public their support for the ecclesiastical recognition of loving committed relationships among lesbian and gay people, and for the ordination of qualified women and men as pastors and church professionals, regardless of sexual orientation. These church leaders, known as the Network (to end sexual discrimination in the ELCA), publicly released their names to an official representative of the ELCA. The group includes seminary professors, bishops, pastors, lay leaders and others. Bishop Emeritus Stanley E. Olson, a leader of the Network, is among those who publicly came out with his support. Bishop Olson said, "I have witnessed the unscriptural burdens the ELCA has placed on all of its many gay and lesbian members, whether lay or ordained. Ass one who has held the office of bishop in the church, I cannot remain passive or silent."

Jesus' Praise For The Centurion Soldiers Slave Boy

In Matthew and Luke Jesus is portrayed as tolerant of a pederastic relationship between the centurion and his "boy." A centurion had a slave (doulos) whom he valued highly (or who was very precious); this slave was ill and near death. Hearing about Jesus, he sent some Jewish elders with to request Jesus to save his slave's life. The centurion had faith He could cure him. Jesus said "I tell you, nowhere, even in Israel, have I found faith like this." and healed the slave boy. (Luke 7:2-10).

The slightly different version in Matthew (8:5) refers in each instance to the boy as "boy" (pais), not slave (doulos). "Boy in Greek connotes a catamite or youth in a homosexual/pederastic relationship in the Greco-Roman world. These relationships were socially acceptable and not uncommon in that culture. The boy would not be trained to become a lifelong or adult homosexual if he was naturally heterosexual but often would remain bisexual. This public acceptance of pederasty, an institution which the Romans inherited from the Greeks, was accompanied, however, by a measure of public anxiety. Effeminacy and submissiveness, for example, were viewed with contempt. Roman aristocratic families increasingly protected their young men by law from such assignments. Hence the pederastic relationship was increasingly assigned to slaves, who had no social reputation to lose.

The practice was very common in Jesus' day. Plutarch, the Greek biographer, who traveled widely and taught in Rome, was born about a decade after Jesus died. He discusses in his "Dialogue on Love" the question whether the love of boys is superior to the love of women, a critical question of the day. The tradition of the Greeks held the love of boys to be superior to a women.

Readers or hearers of the story in the first century would unquestionably conclude, given the language that is used that the centurion was a pederast and his boy a catamite. Luke reinforces that impression by characterizing the boy as "very precious" to him.

This supports a picture of Jesus as one who was tolerant of such relationships, a picture that is congruent with the rest of the New Testament. However, it is not enough to say that Jesus was merely tolerant of this apparent pederastic relationship. More then that, he was deeply impressed with the centurions faith as to make it a prime example in his teachings recalled by both Matthew and Luke.

Internet Reply to My Centurion Discussion
From Cliff Hammond
Internet Subject "Where does which Bible condemn Homosexuality":

"Dave, your discussion of the centurions servant is very interesting. It raises some interesting questions. First, if the ministry of Jesus was to the Jews, as we are told in the Gospels, it is not surprising that the subject of homoeroticism did not present, given that the Jews universally considered homoeroticism (among males) to be a purity issue (toevan, but not zemia) and a practice of the "unclean Gentiles" with whom the Jews refused to mix socially. Therefore, when the opportunity did present - in a setting in which the writers of the Gospels were not only recalling the incident of faith and healing to Jewish Christians but also to "Gentile" Christians - one would think that the writers of the Gospels would have desired to clarify the issue if it were an issue. Because, in their choice of words to label the functional relationship of the young male servant with his master, they did not rule out the possibility of homoeroticism (The Greek word, pais, connotes inclusion of homoeroticism within the scope of the master-slave relationship), they have - perhaps unintentionally - proffered a very strong argument from silence that such a homoerotic relationship simply was not an issue for them and their Hellenic culture.

A discussion of the synoptic process might hold a key. If it is true that Q Source and the original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew was used as an outline for the Gospel of Mark, which was then used together with the original Aramaic Matthew as outlines for the Greek version of Matthew, it is interesting that the story of the Centurian's pais does not appear in Mark. That the story *does* appear in Luke using the Gk word duablos (sp?) argues for the possibility that Luke also used Aramaic Matthew (or Q) in addition to Mark as its outline. The Question then becomes why did Luke use diablos and not pais?

If Luke used the gospel of Mark as an outline, where did he get the story of the healing of the Centurian's servant? From Aramaic Matthew? Luke's use of the Gk duablos for "servant" could be circumstantially explained as translation bias due to Luke's close association with Paul, a Pharisee who did address homoeroticism in his Letter to the Romans as a consequence of the Gentiles' idolatry.

Why did Peter's secretary, Mark, choose not to use the story in his own gospel if he were truly using as his outline the Aramaic Matthew and the stories of Jesus' messianic ministry related by the Apostle Peter?

Why did the author of the Gk version of Matthew choose the word pais translating from the original Aramaic Matthew and using the Gospel of Mark as its outline?"

Nowhere in the NT did Jesus say a word, even mistranslated about this pederastic practice, much less anything about today's far different loving equal homosexual relationships. That such an understanding of this text would surprise the modern reader simply demonstrates the gulf that separates the world of the biblical times and modern days in the area of sexual values.

King David's Love For Jonathan

Samuel 1:25-26 clearly states male-male love is greater than that of a women.

"I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me; thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women." King James

or, Revised English " Jonathan lies slain on your heights. I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you are most dear to me; your love for me was wonderful, passing the love of women." Is the same in all modern English versions.

The speaker is King David. David was Jonathan's brother-in-law While some may not like the fact that this is what the scripture says it does clearly state that the love between two men can be greater than between a man and a women. Many Christians are homophobic. They should try really loving homosexuals and they might find the fact homosexuals can deeply love each other not so difficult to grasp and accept.


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